Since dropping his house-tinged Veggie Wraps Vol. 1 at the start of last year, BGourd has established himself as one of Singaporean hip-hop’s most original voices. With a delivery that balances playful irreverence with lyrical density, his sonic approaches adopt similarly genre-free approaches: following collaborations with producers Halal Sol and Fauxe, his third collection of quirky wraps take a free-flowing, experimental edge, as he teamed up with his brother Beansprouts on this June’s Veggie Wraps Vol. 3, one of this year’s best records so far. Although Vol. 3 marks his brother’s first time behind production, their pairing isn’t exactly new either - over the COVID-19 pandemic, the duo kickstarted Lim Brothers Travel, an online DJ programme that embraces both fun and chaos in equal doses. Big Duck caught up with the pair for a little conversation about their stories, and what went behind BGourd’s third venture into the sonic wilderness.

So… what got the BGourd project started in the first place?

BG: My start at rapping was probably back in 2014 when I was still in Junior College - I would be writing absolute dog shit, but that’s for another day. BGourd, on the other hand, was an idea that I had in late 2017 which coincided with getting to know the crazy talented [house producer] Halal Sol through a music group chat. Growing up, I was a big fan of Kanye West, Outkast, and the late MF Doom. Slightly later on, around 014, I would end up being influenced by the likes of Nas, Earl Sweatshirt, Danny Brown, Death Grips, Cities Aviv, Run The Jewels, and JPEGMAFIA. I would say that these early influences are still prevalent in VW1 through 3. With regards to why I started rapping, I would say that it boiled down to three main reasons - familiarity with the genre, my desire to experiment with the concept of “Singaporean Hip Hop” and just a general why-not attitude.

Now having released the third instalment of your Wraps series, what would you say has been the biggest change in how you’ve approached these songs?

BG: In each instalment of the wraps series, the biggest challenge was always about reflecting and processing the key ideas that I want to convey in each song. I wouldn’t say anything has changed, but I definitely see growth in my abilities to deliver different unconventional or off-kilter flows and tones to add new life into each beat that I get from a collaborator. 

In the course of the year or so since my debut, I think I can safely say that I’ve improved both technically and lyrically as a rapper. That being said, I don’t think I’m even close to being the best rapper in those departments. When I write and record, I just try my best to focus and to be in the present, so I tend to not be too concerned with my early days as a rapper.

How was the process working with each individual producer like? What ways were distinctive to their styles of working, and what did you learn from Halal Sol / Fauxe?

BG: I feel as though the whole point of the Veggie Wraps series was about organic (no pun intended) collaborations with local producers who I think are just phenomenal. 

Each individual that I’ve collaborated with is as unique as their musical abilities and I think that translates in the music that we’ve made together. Personally, I don’t think any of the Veggie Wraps instalments sound the same - each of them has their own flavour which is testament to the unique partnership / collaboration that I had with them. 

In terms of learning, I’ve learnt plenty and it might be hard to summarise. Halal Sol was the first person who gave me the opportunity to even rap, exposing me to what it means to record music. Fauxe, on the other hand, through his mixed ethos introduced me to a whole new understanding of what it means to make music, especially in Singapore. Fauxe, who I consider my big brother and great friend, is someone who I really look up to and I would consider this friendship to be one of the biggest takeaways of my career thus far.

Take us through the recording process with Fauxe: on his role before and how he helped polish the songs on VW3.

BG: It goes without saying that Fauxe, amongst us and many of our peers, is one of the vets in the post-2000s Singaporean music scene and I was blessed enough to have him onboard, as executive producer and mixer for VW3. With VW3 being Beansprouts’ production debut, having a second opinion and contributor in Fauxe was second to none - his deep understanding of music, great ear for what sounds good, and overall musical talent played a key role in the overall process of VW3.

How did you begin working with Beansprouts, then? As brothers, was there much more of a loose dynamic to the project?

BG: Even before I had released anything, I knew the four producers I wanted to work with for my Veggie Wraps Series. Knowing Beansprouts and his beat making abilities, I had to work with him. 

But it was tough for sure! For some reason I’m most comfortable writing music when I’m outside my house and especially in a studio - kind of like a “don’t shit where you eat” type situation. So I would have preferred to have spent time in the studio but that would end up proving to be relatively rare and scarce. Lucky for me, however, my sessions don’t tend to have large numbers of people so when COVID-19 restrictions eased, so did the productivity in making VW3. However, during the height of the COVID-19 restrictions, being in close proximity to Beansprouts definitely made things easier as we were able to communicate face to face on what we planned to do with each song. With regards to the lyrical content of my songs, I think it’s pretty evident that COVID-19 played a big role in its fruition.

Which were your favourite songs to work on across all 3 volumes? (And why?)

BG: Cliché but.. Probably all the songs. Each song had presented its own challenges and making each of my 17 songs thus far was really fun. But I guess, notably, making “Stop Here If You Want To”, “6th Best Wrapper”, “State”, “Gone”, and “Robbing Breath” were the most fun for different reasons.

On the production side for Beansprouts, what were the main influences when it came around to VW3? How did you get first started with production?

BS: I would send BGourd some beats every now and then and he picked the ones he liked. This exchange started when BGourd was still working on VW1. He even played “Virtual Machine” at his first show in Lithe House back in March 2020.

As for when I started, I have no idea when, but it probably started with that Sony Ericsson Music DJ app. Remember this?

I remember there were a couple of genres to play from - not sure what they are now, but from the video I think there was probably techno and rock and reggae. I enjoyed putting instrumental tracks from different genres and seeing how they sounded. I also remember setting the tempo all the way down to 40 bpm just to see how much I could fuck it up. When I was a kid, I wanted to be DJ Shadow - I named myself DJ Singapore at one point.

What are you looking for when it comes to samples?

BS: Most of the time I just scroll through random tracks on Spotify or YouTube and find something that I think sounds nice looped, or could be mapped across a MIDI as a melodic instrument.

This is your first proper release/credit on production. Of course, you’ve had experience DJing before – but how does it differ when going in with the mindset of producing for a full release?

BS: It can be a lot more perfectionist than DJing. But going down to basics, I really think they’re quite similar; it’s all about arrangements and mixing. The main mindset I adopted for VW3 was to learn. Fauxe did the executive production on VW3 and he’s given me lots of tips and tricks that I hope to utilise in the future.

What do you think you’re looking to pursue as a producer following this?

BS: I had a lot of fun working on VW3, and I look forward to putting more music out. I’ve really only started DJing about 4 years ago, but I’ve been making silly beats all my life.

How would you characterise your relationship as brothers, then?

BG: I think we function in a similar manner to how “brothers” is synonymous with “Good friend”. I think we work quite well together!

BS: I also think the producer / rapper contrast says a lot.

Has music always been part of the relationship between you two?

BG: Yes! Music and Football I would say are part of the makeup of our roots as brothers.

BS: If I hadn’t been listening to music so voraciously growing up, BGourd probably wouldn’t have been, either.

BG: Fact.

Obviously, beyond Veggie Wraps, you two already have established a connection with DJing as Lim Brothers Travel. What was the impetus behind that?

BG: The idea was born during the height of COVID-19 and was initiated through our collective desire to party with our friends through good tunes and visuals. You know, things we would normally do bi-weekly at Headquarters by the Council. 

BS: Back when the livestreams started, I had just graduated and was still high off the thrills of DJing at house parties with schoolmates. I wanted to keep that energy going and COVID-19 wasn’t going to stop me.

Speaking of LBT (and OGs Chan), have you both actually had experience with travel agencies and package tours? What have been your strangest experiences traveling abroad?

BG: Actually, no. We however, with our group of friends, had a collective experience of going to Fuji Rock ‘18 to mentally and physically feel The Chemical Brothers rip us to shreds.

BS: Not sure about BGourd, but I hate package tours. If I went on vacation I would rather stay in one spot instead of rushing to different locations trying to see everything. Better yet, I’d rather just walk around aimlessly in a city or town and try to soak some semblance of everyday life in.

What overlaps do you two have musically currently? What are you both listening to? Is BGourd still the Sixth Best Rapper? Who are the top 5?

BG: Wrapper*. I think recently we’ve both really enjoyed listening to Erika de Casier. I hope BGourd is still the 6th Best Wrapper - that being said there has been lots of great hip hop music coming out of Singapore too. If I’d list great Singaporean rappers I would say, I really enjoy listening to MickeyLEANO, DanniKiddo, OmarKenobi, Sweet Mary Sue, Ghetti and AesopCash. (6 Rappers from the 6th Best Wrapper). 

BS: I enjoyed Eddie Chacon’s hypnagogic Pleasure, Joy and Happiness, which BGourd recommended to me a while back. We also recently discovered Pablo Chill-E, a Chilean rapper whose (otherwise nonsensically racist) song “Singapur” has a hook so sick I can’t believe the Latin Americans beat us to it. 

Nowadays, our music tastes don’t intersect that much. But as kids we listened to the same couple of things, so we can relate to what sounds we prefer now that we’re all grown up.

Bringing things back to the current release, the production for VW3 notably takes on much more of a freeform character than the previous releases, which were, if you’d put it, more conventional. Was there a specific framework or intention that you were pursuing for the release as a whole from the start?

BG: I think each EP definitely had their own rationale in terms of sequencing. Going into this EP we definitely took it song by song, which possibly explains the perceived Freeform characteristic. Personally, I would use the word chaotic - that was the energy I wanted to convey going into this EP. 

Robbing Breath’s chaotic production paired with its aggressive, syncopated flow make it an exhilarating, almost anxiety-inducing listen. What were the inspirations behind the track?

BG: I would shamelessly say that the inspiration was MC Ride of Death Grips. I just wanted to be aggressive in a less pop punk manner as compared to “Whack” (especially at the start). Lyrically, it was also quite an aggressive track, I guess it stemmed from both the frustrations and the eventual calm of day-to-day living in a circuit breaker. 

Tracks like Virtual Machine and Crane detail your personal struggle with the pandemic and the circuit breaker quarantine. Did writing these verses help you cope with everything that was going on?

BG: Maybe in unintended ways. I would say I used these tracks to note down whacky observations which I noticed with regards to my personal life as a student and as a general citizen in Singapore. 

A lyric from “Whack”: “Alt right / Too left / Live from the Center view / You think you're safe / conflicting in your brain and you get deranged.” Any hints as to who you’re criticising on the track?

BG: No one in particular! I just sometimes find “centrist” views to be conflicting in nature and annoyingly “balanced” like my Sec 4 “O” Level English essay.

Gone closes the EP with a conversation with Veggie Wraps vol. 4 ‘s enigmatic producer, e-plant. What can we expect from the next and final volume of the wraps series?

BG: I think you can expect something fresh!

Listen to Veggie Wraps, Vol. 3 here.